蓝海人类学在线 Ryan WEI's Forum of Anthropology

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发表于 2010-6-11 17:47 | 显示全部楼层 |阅读模式

Pigment phenotype来自古代遗体遗存的色素类型 与生物地理祖先and biogeographical ancestry from ancient skeletal remains:
inferences from multiplexed autosomal SNP analysis 来自复合常染色体SNP分析的推论
Caroline Bouakaze, Christine Keyser, Eric Crubézy, Daniel Montagnon and Bertrand Ludes
International Journal of Legal Medicine国际法医学杂志, Issue Volume 123, Number 4 / July, 2009, ISSN 0937-9827 (Print) 1437-1596 (Online)


Anybody who has seen Ahmadinejad如果谁已看过内贾德, Pashtun Talib fighters普什图的塔利班战士, or an Indian movie 或者在印度电影中见到大把天生金发碧眼的印度伊朗语人saw plenty of these Indo-Iranian blonds with patently sky-blue eyes. The very notion is ridiculous这一定是很荒谬的概念, but it still underlies the idea of Kurgan Cultures somehow related to the Indo-Iranians.但不知为何?这种观点依然是“库尔干文化与印度伊朗人有关”的思想基础 Probably或许, short of nuclear bombs,短暂狂轰滥炸式不明真相的宣传 it is the only step to a glory.是争取“荣耀”的唯一出路 But the facts are a stubborn phenomenon然而事实却是雷打不动的, they speak for themselves他们(库尔干人)说自己独有的语言. We are finally getting somewhere in the genetical area我们最终的遗传学领域找到了证据, due to unintentional help of Maria Gambitus' followers.由于玛利亚-金布塔斯的追随者们毫无意义的帮助, She replaced the heroic German warrior conquerors with heroic Baltic warrior conquerors,她以波罗的海英勇战士征服者的形象取代了日耳曼英勇战士征服者 all emanating from the Eastern Europe pre-Kurgan and Kurgan cultures所有这些都来自东欧前库尔干及库尔干文化人群. Looking for  Indo-Iranians,为了搜寻“印欧人” we finally came to the Tele Oguz area 我们最终进入了铁勒(丁零)乌古斯的领地in the middle flow of Enisei (56°N 93°E). That is a watershed line between Western Siberians and Eastern Siberians这是一个东西西伯利亚之间的分水岭, an area where Oguz Tele in the west border Kirgiz (Enisei Kirgiz, Khakases) in the east是铁勒乌古斯人在东方叶尼塞柯尔克孜西界的一片领土. Like in the Aezop fable就像传说中的Aezop, a pile of manure sifting这是一篇精挑细选的沃土, a rooster found a kernel of a pearl.一个出乎意料的收获 Someday, somehow,也许不可避免地有一天 that was unavoidable. We still have some missing links我们仍会发现缺失的环节, the Kurgan Cultures of the eastern Europe and West Siberia still remain genetically terra incognita. 东欧与西部利亚的库尔干文化仍然保有基因的未知领域
The authors are careful not to say the magic word,此文的提交者小心翼翼不要说出这个神秘的词汇 and any reference to the aboriginal peoples以及任何有关土著居民的参考, but they are already cognizant 但他们已经认识到库尔干文化的确起源于乌克兰大草原——以及伏尔加乌拉尔流域that Kurgan Culture originated in the steppes of Ukraine and Itil/Volga-Urals area, and marched eastward to reach Gansu而且向东推进一直抵达甘肃. That is hard to beat这一事实难以否认, a mass of the archeological大量基于考古学、人骨分析、以及文化方面的证据已经累积起来支持这一论点, osteological, and cultural evidence had been accumulated to support that. And any biological evidence uncovered so far indicates而且所有迄今发现的遗传学证据 均表明一个混有蒙古因素的高加索人种早于研究时期a Caucasoid-Mongoloid admixture predating the studied period, whatever that period happened to be, and whatever was the Central Asiatic area explored. The authors are still referring to a population soups like generic Poles and Russians, not bothering to attempt a better resolution: The Poles are not less heterogeneous than Russians, and anybody who does not know that if you scratch a Russian you would find a Tatar should abstain from suggesting genealogical opinions. Euphemisms do not belong to science, they are a tool of politicians. We already have the predictable, in a sense that such traced would be discovered, tracers: R-SRY10831b and Q-P36 testify that Kurgan Culture originated in the steppes of Ukraine and Itil/Volga-Urals area, and marched eastward to eventually reach Gansu. We already reached South Siberia and Altai, are bordering on China, and now are found in the northern-most reaches of the Asiatic steppe belt.
The search for blond Indo-Iranians is an obvious blind alley这一研究成果对于“金发印度伊朗人搜索”是个明显的死胡同. I addition to the common sense experience, nowhere in the historical notes was ever recorded that anything even remotely connected with India and Persia even smells of blondish. Nada, zilch, zippo. At the same time we have records of blondish Usun Huns同时我们有关于金发乌孙和匈人的历史记录, Dinlins/Tele/Oguzes described as blondish,丁零、铁勒乌古斯人也被形容为金发碧眼。 the modern "Tatars" of the Lower Itil/Volgs are still frequently blondish,直到今天伏尔加河下游的塔塔尔人依然普遍金发碧眼特征 light hair is relatively frequent among the aboriginals from the Saratov/Saratau to Urals. The Huns had noses distinct from Chinese to such a degree that larger-nosed Chinese were in jeopardy in the times of troubles. Among some Siberian Türks, the dark hair is still considered to be unattractive and a bad omen.
 楼主| 发表于 2010-6-11 17:49 | 显示全部楼层
This posting is a mirror from the Dienekes blog. For more details, refer to the source. Additional comments are shown in blue italics; bold highlighting was added for this posting. On the Dienekes blog are posted very informative comments, not mirrored here.
This sample was previously tested for Y-chromosome and mtDNA polymorphisms.

The pigmentation-related loci tested can be seen in the labels of my post, which should lead you to some earlier studies on them.

Most individuals were found to be most similar to European than to East Asian or African individuals based on these loci, although some (2 from Andronovo) of them were more similar to East Asians or intermediate (1 from Tagar) between East Asians and Europeans.

Interestingly, 1 of the Andronovo Mongoloids (S07) was previously found to belong to Y chromosome haplogroup C(xC3), while the Caucasoid-Mongoloid individual from Tagar (S32) belonged to haplogroup R1a1 (I.e even in unlikely case the Andronovo Mongoloids were first generation immigrants, their kids were already a mixture; try to extract from that Andronovo Mongoloid mixture purebred Indo-Iranians. The Tagar crossbreed clearly carried his R1a1 from the Eastern European steppes, possibly for better then 2 millennia.)

It should be noted that the use of the term "European individual ancestry" does not mean that these individuals were from Europe, as no test to distinguish between European and Asian Caucasoids was performed, and we know from literary descriptions and occasional archaeological remains about the ancient presence of light-pigmented Caucasoids in Siberia (The repeated inferences to Indo-Europeans,  Maria Gambitus, Europeans for Caucasoids are not only misleading, but bring into scientific research an openly racial agenda).

From the paper:
The genotype for rs12913832 was obtained for 23 out of the 25 samples, and most had the G/G genotype (n=15), which indicates that at least 60% of ancient specimens were probably blue- or green-eyed individuals. The remaining samples had the A/G (n=5) or A/A (n=3) genotypes, which are predictive of brown eye color phenotype.
 楼主| 发表于 2010-6-11 17:54 | 显示全部楼层
发表于 2010-6-11 21:17 | 显示全部楼层
民科之作,QR的起源跟Kurgan Culture八竿子打不着。其中的英文很奇怪,比如“I addition to the common sense experience”,大概是哪个人出口转内销了。
发表于 2010-6-11 21:25 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 natsuya 于 2010-6-11 21:27 编辑

應該不少人看過了, 有關印歐語族起源的書, <The Horse, the Wheel, and Language: How Bronze-Age Riders from the Eurasian Steppes Shaped the Modern World>。 ... e&q&f=false
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