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MT-N五万年前由北亚路线进入澳大利亚

本帖最后由 sahaliyan 于 2015-6-9 11:04 编辑

R.Fregel et al
Background

The modern human colonization of Eurasia and Australia is mostly explained by a single-out-of-Africa exit following a southern coastal route throughout Arabia and India. However, dispersal across the Levant would better explain the introgression with Neanderthals, and more than one exit would fit better with the different ancient genomic components discovered in indigenous Australians and in ancient Europeans. The existence of an additional Northern route used by modern humans to reach Australia was previously deduced from the phylogeography of mtDNA macrohaplogroup N. Here, we present new mtDNA data and new multidisciplinary information that add more support to this northern route.
Methods


MtDNA hypervariable segments and haplogroup diagnostic coding positions were analyzed in 2,278 Saudi Arabs, from which 1,725 are new samples. Besides, we used 623 published mtDNA genomes belonging to macrohaplogroup N, but not R, to build updated phylogenetic trees to calculate their coalescence ages, and more than 70,000 partial mtDNA sequences were screened to establish their respective geographic ranges.
Results


The Saudi mtDNA profile confirms the absence of autochthonous mtDNA lineages in Arabia with coalescence ages deep enough to support population continuity in the region since the out-of-Africa episode. In contrast to Australia, where N(xR) haplogroups are found in high frequency and with deep coalescence ages, there are not autochthonous N(xR) lineages in India nor N(xR) branches with coalescence ages as deep as those found in Australia. These patterns are at odds with the supposition that Australian colonizers harboring N(xR) lineages used a route involving India as a stage. The most ancient N(xR) lineages in Eurasia are found in China, and inconsistently with the coastal route, N(xR) haplogroups with the southernmost geographical range have all more recent radiations than the Australians.
Conclusions


Apart from a single migration event via a southern route, phylogeny and phylogeography of N(xR) lineages support that people carrying mtDNA N lineages could have reach Australia following a northern route through Asia. Data from other disciplines also support this scenario.

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0129839
1

评分次数

三界无安,犹如火宅。众苦充满,甚可怖畏
                            --------《法华经》
是以法从心生。名因法立
                      ------------《宗镜录》
看了他的表,感觉不甚靠谱。
O3a3c* (M134+, M117-)
该文作者最有力的证据是印度和阿拉伯缺乏早期N(xR)支系,阿拉伯还可说成环境恶劣,但是印度则未必,印度的N(xR)支系很明显是后来进入的,而与R和M的支系丰富不同
三界无安,犹如火宅。众苦充满,甚可怖畏
                            --------《法华经》
是以法从心生。名因法立
                      ------------《宗镜录》
看了他的表,感觉不甚靠谱。
hercules 发表于 2015-6-9 12:58
印度缺乏早期分化的N(xR)支系,大多数都是后进入的,有些是作为西欧亚成分,有些是东欧亚成分,这个如何解释?说从阿拉伯印度而来,阿拉伯印度的N(xR)在哪?
三界无安,犹如火宅。众苦充满,甚可怖畏
                            --------《法华经》
是以法从心生。名因法立
                      ------------《宗镜录》
印度缺乏早期分化的N(xR)支系,大多数都是后进入的,有些是作为西欧亚成分,有些是东欧亚成分,这个如何解释?说从阿拉伯印度而来,阿拉伯印度的N(xR)在哪?
sahaliyan 发表于 2015-6-9 13:13
如果母系从北亚进入的话,那父系从东南亚进入就显然不合理啊。
我以前看过一篇文章,说印度虽然Mt-M种类繁多,实际年龄却比不上东南亚,也是后来从东南亚进入的。
印度缺乏早期分化的N(xR)支系,大多数都是后进入的,有些是作为西欧亚成分,有些是东欧亚成分,这个如何解释?说从阿拉伯印度而来,阿拉伯印度的N(xR)在哪?
sahaliyan 发表于 2015-6-9 13:13
那么问题来了,中亚有吗?
O3a3c* (M134+, M117-)
原文
Coalescence ages, based on complete mtDNA sequences, for the main branches of macrohaplogroup N(xR), and their present-day geographic distributions are shown in Table 1 and S1–S2 Figs. Haplogroup N11 presents the oldest divergence (around 76 kya) with two main branches, N11a and N11b. N11a is spread in central, western China and Inner Mongolia, and also in southern China and in Makatao from Taiwan [39–42], whereas N11b is found in Philippines [43,44].The second most ancient lineage is N10 (around 66 kya) being mainly detected in southern China, the Tibet and in Lingao from Hainan [39,45]. It is relevant to mention here that, albeit in a smaller proportion, Tibetan and Southeastern Asians, like Filipinos, have introgressed Denisovan-like DNA in their genomes [46,47]. Around 50 kya N(xR) representatives diverged at the same time at very distant geographic areas as western Eurasia (N1 and N2) and Australia (S). Incidentally, as most parsimonious, we propose the Australian N14 lineage [48] as a branch of S1a, sharing 5291 transition with another Australian S sequence (S1 Fig). Later N(xR) spreads, around 40 kya, occurred in a global geographic range from West Asia including North Africa (haplogroup X), southeast Asia (N7 in Cambodia), to northeast Asia (N9) extending also to Australia (O/N12). Other haplogroups as M and R derivatives, also present in Australia, could have reached this continent in that period as a secondary migratory wave. Ancient DNA analyses of an early modern human from Tianyuan cave in northern China, dated around 40 kya [49] and a modern human from western Siberia dated around 45 kya [50], showed that these two individuals already belonged to mtDNA haplogroup R lineages, the main derived branch of macrohaplogroup N. In addition, they carried portions of DNA derived from Neanderthals similar to people present-day in mainland Asia, but lacked of the Denisovan component detected in Negritos of Philippines, Papuans and aboriginal Australians and, at less proportion, in southeastern Asians and Tibetans [47,51], reinforcing the idea that Asian expansions at that period were driven by carriers of derived mtDNA lineages and that the Tianyuan specimen was genetically a fully modern human.

N(xR) haplogroups with the southernmost geographical ranges as N8, N21 and N22 had all significantly more recent radiations than those of Chinese haplogroups N10 (p < 0.0001 in all cases) and N11 (p < 0.0001 in all cases) and the Australian lineages S (p < 0.0001 in all cases) and O (p< 0.0001 for N21 and N22 and p = 0.0074 for N8). These results are inconsistent with a southern route for N(xR). Furthermore, they are also significantly younger (p < 0.0001 in all cases) than the youngest northern Asian haplogroup A (Table 1). It has to be mentioned that, from our analysis of 247 haplogroup A complete sequences (S2 Fig), we have detected 32 new phylogenetic branches of this haplogroup, tentatively represented in red on the A tree. Also inconsistent with the southern route hypothesis is the fact that relative diversities point to an origin in island Southeast Asia for these southern N lineages and recent dispersals westwards into the Malay Peninsula [52].
三界无安,犹如火宅。众苦充满,甚可怖畏
                            --------《法华经》
是以法从心生。名因法立
                      ------------《宗镜录》
中亚也发现早期的 F*(xG,H,I,J,K)分支,再加上中国的F2,这也可能是个母系走北线的旁证。

F*(xG,H,I,J,K) is also found among Turkic people in Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan, which is reported in the genetic study of Balaresque et al. (2015)

http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journ ... f/ejhg2014285x3.pdf
原文
Coalescence ages, based on complete mtDNA sequences, for the main branches of macrohaplogroup N(xR), and their present-day geographic distributions are shown in Table 1 and S1–S2 Figs. Haplogro ...
sahaliyan 发表于 2015-6-9 16:58
这不正是说他的算法有问题,N11的年代都比N(xR)大了。
O3a3c* (M134+, M117-)
这不正是说他的算法有问题,N11的年代都比N(xR)大了。
hercules 发表于 2015-6-9 17:49
但是相对年龄的大小是没有问题的,即N11最古老
三界无安,犹如火宅。众苦充满,甚可怖畏
                            --------《法华经》
是以法从心生。名因法立
                      ------------《宗镜录》
而且没猜错的话,N11是在中国分化为ab的,中亚有没有N11对于我7楼的问题毫无意义。
O3a3c* (M134+, M117-)
文章有没有考虑各个N(xR)分支之间的关系?难道这个可以忽略?
O3a3c* (M134+, M117-)
而且没猜错的话,N11是在中国分化为ab的,中亚有没有N11对于我7楼的问题毫无意义。
hercules 发表于 2015-6-9 18:01
中亚环境恶劣,在冰期的时候人口很容易被消灭,但是印度却不一样
三界无安,犹如火宅。众苦充满,甚可怖畏
                            --------《法华经》
是以法从心生。名因法立
                      ------------《宗镜录》
本帖最后由 baiyueren 于 2015-6-9 19:09 编辑

这篇论文基本没有什么可信度吧。中亚本身没有什么独特的N早期分支,N11也是与华南—东南亚共享的。所以我同样可以说N11可能是东南亚向中亚扩散的。
从论证的角度来说,除非发现很多其他地方从未发现过的N*独特的根部分支,显示出N*在北亚和中亚的多态性,才能说明问题。就目前的发现来看,东南亚的N多态性还是其他地方没法比拟的。
Ps:这其中所提到的N11/N10应该就是我在《N超单倍群》中根据高变区数据发现,然后昆明所重新检测相关样本全序确认的新分支。
NRY: O2a1c1a1a1a1a1a1-002611,F11,F17,F856,F1495(源自粤西云浮)
mtDNA:B4d1(源自浙北慈溪)
百越人的人类学文集 http://blog.sina.com.cn/baiyueren
中亚环境恶劣,在冰期的时候人口很容易被消灭,但是印度却不一样
sahaliyan 发表于 2015-6-9 18:05
discovery or bbc,拍过一个系列,讲述人类出非洲故事,说到当时印度大部是沙漠。印度直立人就在那时灭绝。
O3a3c* (M134+, M117-)
discovery or bbc,拍过一个系列,讲述人类出非洲故事,说到当时印度大部是沙漠。印度直立人就在那时灭绝。
hercules 发表于 2015-6-9 20:48
那就有点双重标准了,印度有早期分化支系,就是说明印度固有,印度没有,就是印度环境不好。然而问题在于为什么印度的M,R没有消灭呢?印度的M也未必是该国固有,但是在印度历史显然比N(XR)久远
三界无安,犹如火宅。众苦充满,甚可怖畏
                            --------《法华经》
是以法从心生。名因法立
                      ------------《宗镜录》
中亚沙漠化,还有西亚。毕竟中亚离非洲还远。
那你得承认,中亚没有古老支系,不能厚此薄彼。
说澳洲N来自中国,那么中国发现它的近亲了吗?以此嘲笑印度,是不是五十步笑百步?
O3a3c* (M134+, M117-)
中亚沙漠化,还有西亚。毕竟中亚离非洲还远。
那你得承认,中亚没有古老支系,不能厚此薄彼。
说澳洲N来自中国,那么中国发现它的近亲了吗?以此嘲笑印度,是不是五十步笑百步?
hercules 发表于 2015-6-10 07:56
这不一样,东南亚和西伯利亚不能比,印度和中亚也不能比。但是我们看西亚,西亚是有N(XR)的自有支系的,但是起源地点不是阿拉伯半岛,而是北部,欧洲的N(XR)也是由此而来。这是对北线的支持。因为N(XR)在西亚北部更为古老
中国的N(XR)比东南亚更古老
三界无安,犹如火宅。众苦充满,甚可怖畏
                            --------《法华经》
是以法从心生。名因法立
                      ------------《宗镜录》
我以前看过一篇文章,说印度虽然Mt-M种类繁多,实际年龄却比不上东南亚,也是后来从东南亚进入的。
wolfgang 发表于 2015-6-9 16:36
年代有个卵用,关键的树形呢?
O3a3c* (M134+, M117-)
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