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18# MNOPS
N的下游支系情况我不是很清楚,但如果因纽特人的N真的是乌拉尔人或北欧人带去的,那么因纽特语为什么不是乌拉尔语系的?我觉得事情没你想得那么简单。
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有一种语言被称为乌拉尔-西伯利亚语,其中正好包括因纽特语。

我不知道你对后期是怎么定义的,C2北支来到美洲的时间至少也得有万年左右了,这样的时间并不是很后期。而且南美北部的一些印第安部落确实发现了C2*,比如哥伦比亚的Wayuu人。我认为C2就是在东亚北部或东北亚起源,而不是不远万里从东南亚或南亚迁徙来的,否则的话无法解释为何C2到了美洲而NO没到,也无法解释为何亚洲南部的C1和C2分离了那么久。
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我认为一万年与二万年大不相同,分别代表了两个完全不同的时代。如果南美发现了与东亚C2类型完全不同的C2*,那非常好,无疑有助于进一步揭示早期东欧亚人群迁徙到美洲的历史内幕,也可能有助于揭示南美人携带澳洲土著血统的内情。希望你能够提供美洲C2*数据的论文链接~


你说美洲人群的E.E成分是后期通过跟其他人群接触而得来的。那么这个人群究竟是谁呢?印第安人没有NO,很显然带给印第安人E.E成分的不太可能是NO人群。最有可能的人群就是西伯利亚东部以父系C2母系CD为代表的人群。
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你可能没看明白我的原话,我的原话是旧石器末期北亚ANE主频人群本身就带有一定的EE成分,而且与EE主频人群比邻而居。那么,在y-Q主频人群东进(拜日朝觐代表团?)过程中,与EE主频人群混合或外族通婚进一步获取EE成分,应该是非常合理的。
因此早期进军美洲的北亚人群身上的EE成分有三个来源:1、自身固有的;2、东进途中进一步与东北亚的EE主频人群外族通婚;3、混合了一定的EE主频人群(如果南美洲的确存在C2*人群的话)
物格而后知至,知至而后意诚,意诚而后心正,心正而后身修,身修而后家齐,家齐而后国治,国治而后天下平...
ASE是不是对应着父系HL族群也很难说。东亚人普遍具有一些ASE成分,但却没有父系HL。我认为C*,C1,F2,D,甚至O的一些支系,可能都携带了一些ASE成分。
MNOPS 发表于 2016-10-23 01:12
并非完全一一对应关系,以y-DNA标示主要是为了说明方便。我之前已经说明了,ASE很早就参与了亚美人种的形成,我上面的图也清楚无误地显示,这个与EE主频人群比邻而居的人群,覆盖的面积很广,当然可能会涵盖C*,C1,F2,D,甚至O的一些支系,只不过其主要Y类型无疑是HL~
物格而后知至,知至而后意诚,意诚而后心正,心正而后身修,身修而后家齐,家齐而后国治,国治而后天下平...
本帖最后由 豢龙氏 于 2016-10-23 17:09 编辑
18# MNOPS
N的下游支系情况我不是很清楚,但如果因纽特人的N真的是乌拉尔人或北欧人带去的,那么因纽特语为什么不是乌拉尔语系的?我觉得事情没你想得那么简单。
--------------------------------------------- ...
imvivi001 发表于 2016-10-23 08:45
关于南美人澳洲土著血统的来源,我可以提供一个可能的线索。巴西的一批据说是十七世纪土著印第安人的遗骨里,经检测有几例线粒体是南岛的B4a1a1,而两名男性的Y染也是类似波利尼西亚人的C1b,后来对常染分析,这几例遗骨与南岛人群的相似度有97%。可以肯定,这几个个体并非南美土著,而是来自波利尼西亚等南岛族群。至于他们是怎么到达南美的目前不得而知,或者是被欧洲殖民者裹挟来的,或者是自己从太平洋航行而来。那么如今南美所见的痕量类澳洲血统是否有可能是与这些“波利尼西亚人”交流的结果?已知的南岛族群最远已经到达的南美附近的复活节岛,他们是否有可能更近一步抵达美洲,目前还无证据,但也无法完全排除这种可能。
至于楼上有朋友提到的C2*,我也十分好奇,据我所知南美的C2应是和北美一样的P39支系下的,之前有篇论文研究显示南北美洲C2的共祖时间在8000到6000年间。*符号本身就是一个不确定的说法,很大情况下并不是指早期支系,而是指给出数据的研究者无法判断其支系而已。
C-M130交流群:542136235
关于南美人澳洲土著血统的来源,我可以提供一个可能的线索。巴西的一批据说是十七土著印第安人的遗骨里,经检测有几例线粒体是南岛的B4a1a1,而两名男性的Y染也是类似波利尼西亚人的C1b,后来对常染分析,这几例遗骨 ...
豢龙氏 发表于 2016-10-23 11:03
那篇文章分析得出亚马逊土著具有微量澳洲成分,其中有上世纪后半叶才发现的Karitiana人,不可能是那个别南岛人所能解释的。
O3a3c* (M134+, M117-)
没看过印度人分析的结果,不知道把HL对应ASE是否合适,关于印度,有个想法,就是印度可能存在两个不同的地域,沿海地带和内陆,这也许能解释为什么H单倍群为什么没大规模混入其他族群,H分化出来以后,可能是沿印度河北上后经恒河东进的,现在南亚人口最密集的地方就是在那里,而且历史上各种外来族群入侵基本也是沿着恒河东进,可以设想H最初也是这样走。而K下的支系基本是沿海岸线走的,所以在一段时期内双方互不干涉,总之东南亚和南亚族群用各种古成分分析能得出什么结果并不了解,不觉得ASE能划这么大,印度东北孟加拉两边人从长相到文化各种不一样,中南半岛历史上受印度影响很深,H也很少,L更不用说了,更早期是什么情况还不好下结论
周末无聊,摘取一段几个欧洲分子人类学爱好者 就‘欧洲的E.E.成分’展开的激烈讨论

09-11-2014, 10:59 PM #31
Fire Haired
Veteran Member      Originally Posted by Jaxman  
      Mine. These are my DIY results as the GEDmatch version is still inaccurate.
15.64% ANE
3.11% ASE
56.76% WHG-UHG
1.56% East_Eurasian
0.38% West_African
0.33% East_African
22.21% ENF
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There's obvisouly some noise in there(1.56% east Eurasian?). All Europeans are scoring way to low in ENF. How much EEF did you score in Eurogene's EEF-WHG-ANE calculator?  Otzi scored about 60% ENF in this test, so just divide your ENF score by 60, to get an EEF score, and I bet you it's much lower than what you scored in that calculator. Davidiski is getting ANE K=7 results for my uncle using ADMIXTURE. That's what he used for Sardinians who got what look like deadly accurate results. I suggest you ask David to do the same for you. (这哥们是爱尔兰人,明显对自身的1.56%的E.E.成分表示不理解难以接受
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09-11-2014, 06:24 PM
#32 Jusarius (芬兰人)
Senior Member
Ethnicity:Finnish
Ancestry:Savonia
Country:
Y-DNA:N1c1
mtDNA:H3g

Originally Posted by Fire Haired
There's obvisouly some noise in there(1.56% east Eurasian?).
---------------------------------
Why would it be noise? Why can't Europeans have (ancestral) East Eurasian as they have even ancestral South Eurasian, too?  Jaxman has Finnish ancestry so that's perfectly logical. My East Eurasian is over 8%.  这芬兰哥们试图以自身的高比例EE成分为例来开导这个号称“
Fire Haired火红头发”的爱尔兰坛友)

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09-11-2014, 06:50 PM
#33 Jusarius

Senior Member

Ethnicity:Finnish
Ancestry:Savonia
Country:
Y-DNA:N1c1
mtDNA:H3g


Originally Posted by Fire Haired  
All Europeans are scoring way to low in ENF.
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No one has claimed ENF is equal to EEF in the previous calculator. EEF had WHG-like admixture. (他们是在谈论另外几种成分)
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09-11-2014, 09:25 PM
#34 Fire Haired
Veteran Member

  
    Originally Posted by Jusarius  
    No one has claimed ENF is equal to EEF in the previous calculator. EEF had WHG-like admixture.
   -----------------------------
    Yes I know that, but Otzi who is just about identical to EEF(Stuttgart) scored ~60% ENF. So, if English scored ~49% EEF in Laz 2013/14 they should score nearly 30% ENF. Also, the WHG component may have some middle eastern farmer in it, so it might be absorbing some ENF.  (他们继续在谈论另外几种成分)
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09-11-2014, 09:32 PM(另一个凯尔特人加入)
#35 Graham
Veteran Member


Location:West Lothian
Ethnicity:.
Ancestry:Cumbria, Scotland, Northumberland, Shetland
Country:
Y-DNA:R-L21*
mtDNA:K1C2a
Politics:Scottish Green Party


66.85% WHG-UHG (Western European/Unknown Hunter-Gatherer)
15.27% ANE (Ancient North Eurasian)
14.64% ENF (Early Neolithic Farmer)
2.21% ASE (Ancestral South Eurasian )
0.04% East_Eurasian
0.11% West_African
0.88% East_African  
(看来是在自报家门)
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09-11-2014, 10:17 PM
#36 Jusarius
Senior Member



Originally Posted by Fire Haired  
Yes I know that, but Otzi who is just about identical to EEF(Stuttgart) scored ~60% ENF. So, if English scored ~49% EEF in Laz 2013/14 they should score nearly 30% ENF.
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That calculator based on Lazardis et al. included only three components so of course you can't directly compare components from it. Some of the WHG in the 3 components calculator maybe broken into different components in different populations. I mean it's not that simple that you just divide the three components with some fixed numbers as you are suggesting should be the case with the English.  ((他们继续在谈论欧洲的WHG成分))
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09-11-2014, 10:59 PM
#37 Fire Haired
   
Originally Posted by Jusarius  
That calculator based on Lazardis et al. included only three components so of course you can't directly compare components from it. Some of the WHG in the 3 components calculator maybe broken into different components in different populations. I mean it's not that simple that you just divide the three components with some fixed numbers as you are suggesting should be the case with the English.
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Most Europeans don't have identifiable east Asian ancestry. IF they score in anything besides ENF, WHG, and ANE it's probably noise. Finns and BAlts are scoring almost no ENF, which is ridiculous because they defiantly have a big chunk of that form of ancestry.  (这哥们开始发飙,不同意芬兰坛友关于欧洲EE成分的看法,并且对包括芬兰人在内的波罗的海族群身上明显的EE成分露出嘲弄语气,似乎在嘲弄他们的东方祖先背景)
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09-11-2014, 11:30 PM
#38 Jusarius
Senior Member

Ethnicity:Finnish
Ancestry:Savonia
Country:
Y-DNA:N1c1
mtDNA:H3g

Originally Posted by Fire Haired  
IF they score in anything besides ENF, WHG, and ANE it's probably noise. Finns and BAlts are scoring almost no ENF, which is ridiculous because they defiantly have a big chunk of that form of ancestry.
-----------------------------------
Again, try to understand that as you increase the resolution (more components), most of the original ones are broken into separate new ones. For example WHG+UHG isn't equal to WHG in Lazardis. No population in Europe perfectly fitted the three populations model of Lazardis which means that the components in that masked something else.   ()
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09-11-2014, 11:39 PM
#39 Black Wolf
Veteran Member
Ethnicity:European-Canadian
Y-DNA:J2a
mtDNA:U5b2
Religion:Pagan
  
Originally Posted by Fire Haired  
Most Europeans don't have identifiable east Asian ancestry. IF they score in anything besides ENF, WHG, and ANE it's probably noise. Finns and BAlts are scoring almost no ENF, which is ridiculous because they defiantly have a big chunk of that form of ancestry.
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Finns and North Russians do have identifiable East Eurasian ancestry. It can be called ENA (Eastern Non-African) in the words of Laz.   (这位欧洲裔加拿大人加入,指出芬兰人与俄国北部人的E,E成分比较高).
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09-12-2014, 12:01 AM
#40 Fire Haired
Veteran Member


0   
   Originally Posted by Jaxman  (不明白为何此人有两个ID?)
   Finns and North Russians do have identifiable East Eurasian ancestry. It can be called ENA (Eastern Non-African) in the words of Laz.
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Yes I know that, but if for example Irish are scoring 2% east Eurasian we know that's noise.(他继续表示难以接受爱尔兰人携有2% east Eurasian成分这个事实)
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      09-12-2014, 12:01 AM
#41 Fire Haired
Veteran Member

0   
Originally Posted by Jusarius  
Again, try to understand that as you increase the resolution (more components), most of the original ones are broken into separate new ones. For example WHG+UHG isn't equal to WHG in Lazardis. No population in Europe perfectly fitted the three populations model of Lazardis which means that the components in that masked something else.
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Did you read Laz? Europeans fitting as descending from three ancestral populations was their big discovery. Maybe they don't trace every last drop of their blood to those populations, but we shouldn't see scored at 1% in east Eurasian or Sub Saharan.(这哥们继续明显对凯尔特人带有东亚或次撒哈拉血统表示不可接受)
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09-12-2014, 12:11
AM #42 Jusarius
Senior Member
Ethnicity:Finnish
Ancestry:Savonia
Country:
Y-DNA:N1c1
mtDNA:H3g

0   
    Originally Posted by Fire Haired  
    Did you read Laz? Europeans fitting as descending from three ancestral populations was their big discovery. Maybe they don't trace every last drop of their blood to those populations, but we shouldn't see scored at 1% in east Eurasian or Sub Saharan.
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That would be the case if the components in Polako's K7 were identical to the three ancestral components used in Lazardis. But they aren't! Polako himself said that for example ANE in K7 is not based on the MA-1 genome as in Lazardis. These calculators look at the truth from different angles and with different resolutions.  (芬兰人继续耐心解释ANE)
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09-12-2014, 02:35 PM
#43 Grace O'Malley (看名字又是一个凯尔特人)
Veteran Member
Meta-Ethnicity:Irish (Gael)
Ethnicity:Gael-Astralaigh
Ancestry:Ireland
Y-DNA:M222
mtDNA:J1C3f


Apparently this has been fixed on Gedmatch. It wasn't giving correct results before.

Mine
Population
ANE 16.92%
ASE 1.02%
WHG-UHG 63.89%
East_Eurasian 1.17%
West_African -
East_African 0.20%
ENF 16.82%

Mum
Population
ANE 17.17%
ASE 1.75%
WHG-UHG 62.95%
East_Eurasian 0.61%
West_African -
East_African 0.45%
ENF 17.07%

Brother
Population
ANE 16.82%
ASE 1.65%
WHG-UHG 64.03%
East_Eurasian 0.75%
West_African 0.49%
East_African 0.16%
ENF 16.10%

Daughter
Population
ANE 15.44%
ASE 1.80%
WHG-UHG 64.26%
East_Eurasian 0.75%
West_African -
East_African 0.53%
ENF 17.23%  
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09-12-2014, 03:49 PM
#44 Mortimer
Veteran Member
Location:Small Town in Austria
Meta-Ethnicity:Romani Gypsy of World(吉普赛人?)
Ethnicity:SRB-Banat Romani Gypsy
Ancestry:Serbia Voivodina
Y-DNA:E-V13
mtDNA:T2b5
Taxonomy:Pontid + some Indobrachid (and some Alpine)~All In &Alpinized-Dinaric with some Indobrachid~Mn1
Politics:Socially Conservative/Religious-Right; Economically Center-Left
Hero:The Pope Francis, Virgin Mary
Religion:Eastern-Orthodoxy
Age:33

Population
ANE 15.60%
ASE 6.22%(看上去南印度血统并不是太高)
WHG-UHG 35.38%
East_Eurasian 3.15%
West_African 0.14%
East_African 1.34%
ENF 38.17%

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09-12-2014, 04:22 PM
#45 Geni
Veteran Member
Meta-Ethnicity:Albania R1b
Ethnicity:Albanian
Ancestry:Albanians
Country:
Y-DNA:R1b Z 2109
mtDNA:J1
Hero:Gjergj Kastrioti


Population
ANE 10.70%
ASE 1.51%
WHG-UHG 42.44%
East_Eurasian 0.44%
West_African 0.15%
East_African -
ENF 44.77% .
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09-12-2014, 06:19 PM
#46 Jusarius
Senior Member
Ethnicity:Finnish
Ancestry:Savonia
Country:
Y-DNA:N1c1
mtDNA:H3g


Zero ENF for me now!

ANE 20.78%
ASE 2.69%
WHG-UHG 67.88%
East_Eurasian 8.02%
West_African -
East_African 0.59%
ENF - 0 (现在知道欧洲人南北之间差异是多么的大吧,呵呵)
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09-12-2014, 08:57
PM #47 Black Wolf
Veteran Member
           
Meta-Ethnicity:Euro-Mutt
Ethnicity:European-Canadian
Country:
Y-DNA:J2a
mtDNA:U5b2
Religion:Pagan


2   
The GEDmatch version of this calculator seems to be much more accurate now. Here are my own GEDmatch results.

Population
ANE 15.61%
ASE 3.18%
WHG-UHG 57.33%
East_Eurasian 1.50%
West_African 0.62%
East_African 0.15%
ENF 21.61%   
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09-12-2014, 08:59 PM
#48 Black Wolf
Veteran Member
Ethnicity:European-Canadian
Country:
Y-DNA:J2a
mtDNA:U5b2
Religion:Pagan




0   
Originally Posted by Jusarius  
That would be the case if the components in Polako's K7 were identical to the three ancestral components used in Lazardis. But they aren't! Polako himself said that for example ANE in K7 is not based on the MA-1 genome as in Lazardis. These calculators look at the truth from different angles and with different resolutions.
----------------------------------------------
What do you think about the origins of the WHG-UHG component? It reaches it's highest frequencies among the Mesolithic samples such as La Brana but Polako said that it was probably present among the first Neolithic farmers of the Fertile Crescent as well as a minor component to ENF. What do you think about this I am curious?   
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09-12-2014, 09:12 PM
#49 Alessio
Location:Amsterdam
Meta-Ethnicity:Germanic/Latin
Ethnicity:South Italian/North-Dutch
Ancestry:South Italian(Campanian/Neapolitan)/North-Dutch(Angelen, Saksen, Frisii ) Frisian nobility ancestry
Country:
Region:
Y-DNA:R1b1b2a1a2d (R1b-U152)
mtDNA:K2a
Taxonomy:Dinaricized gracile Med + CM
Politics:Justice & Peace
Hero:C.S Lewis
Religion:Christian
Age:27

0   
Population
ANE 12.28% Ancestral Northern European
ASE 0.74% Ancestral South Eurasian
WHG-UHG 48.43% Western European/Unknown Hunter-Gatherer
East_Eurasian 0.82%
West_African 0.07%
East_African 0.27%
ENF 37.39% Early Neolithic Farmer
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09-12-2014, 09:19
PM #50 Alessio

0   
Tuscan/Abruzesse/Campanian/English

Population
ANE 13.21%
ASE 2.17%
WHG-UHG 51.54%
East_Eurasian 0.08%
West_African 0.65%
ENF 32.35%
物格而后知至,知至而后意诚,意诚而后心正,心正而后身修,身修而后家齐,家齐而后国治,国治而后天下平...
没看过印度人分析的结果,不知道把HL对应ASE是否合适,关于印度,有个想法,就是印度可能存在两个不同的地域,沿海地带和内陆,这也许能解释为什么H单倍群为什么没大规模混入其他族群,H分化出来以后,可能是沿印度河 ...
Lep1dus 发表于 2016-10-23 18:02
现代印度主要是两大成分,即ANI与ASI(当年赖希Reich只因为分析出这两大成分而在古人类的aDNA研究领域扬名立万),前者主要是来自ANE/CGH/WHG,后者主要是来自ASE
物格而后知至,知至而后意诚,意诚而后心正,心正而后身修,身修而后家齐,家齐而后国治,国治而后天下平...
本帖最后由 MNOPS 于 2016-10-23 23:09 编辑
18# MNOPS
N的下游支系情况我不是很清楚,但如果因纽特人的N真的是乌拉尔人或北欧人带去的,那么因纽特语为什么不是乌拉尔语系的?我觉得事情没你想得那么简单。
--------------------------------------------- ...
imvivi001 发表于 2016-10-23 08:45
我没找到你所说的乌拉尔-西伯利亚语系,倒是找到了乌拉尔-尤卡吉尔语系,其中并不包括因纽特语。

C2跟澳洲土著没关系。蒙古人种C2跟澳洲土著的C1支系已经分离了很长时间了,他们之间的关系并不比MNOPS各支系之间的关系更近。南美的澳美血统应该不是来源于C2。
而且我也不认为一万多年前算是晚近。近几千年来的人群迁徙要比万年多之前的规模大得多。一万多年前跟两万多年前虽然有差异,但不会像近几千年来变化这么大。
我没找到你所说的乌拉尔-西伯利亚语系,倒是找到了乌拉尔-尤卡吉尔语系,其中并不包括因纽特语。

C2跟澳洲土著没关系。蒙古人种C2跟澳洲土著的C1支系已经分离了很长时间了,他们之间的关系并不比MNOPS各支系之间 ...
MNOPS 发表于 2016-10-23 23:05
你在维基输入uralo-siberian languages即可。

另外,C2的某些支系在东亚的历史仍然模糊不清,还不能与澳洲土著完全脱离干系,或许需要更多的数据观察~
物格而后知至,知至而后意诚,意诚而后心正,心正而后身修,身修而后家齐,家齐而后国治,国治而后天下平...
本帖最后由 MNOPS 于 2016-10-24 09:08 编辑
你在维基输入uralo-siberian languages即可。

另外,C2的某些支系在东亚的历史仍然模糊不清,还不能与澳洲土著完全脱离干系,或许需要更多的数据观察~
imvivi001 发表于 2016-10-24 08:47
东亚有C2但是并没有澳美人种Basal Papuan,显然C2跟澳洲土著的Basal Papuan没关系。我认为C2对应的就是E.E。
另外我查到了uralo-siberian languages。维基上说这只是一个假说,而且并没有获得广泛认同。
东亚有C2但是并没有澳美人种Basal Papuan,显然C2跟澳洲土著的Basal Papuan没关系。我认为C2对应的就是E.E。
MNOPS 发表于 2016-10-24 09:00
现在恐怕还不能下这个结论until eurogene ANE_K9 test(with basal Papuan along)is released~
物格而后知至,知至而后意诚,意诚而后心正,心正而后身修,身修而后家齐,家齐而后国治,国治而后天下平...
现在恐怕还不能下这个结论until eurogene ANE_K9 test(with basal Papuan along)is released~
imvivi001 发表于 2016-10-24 09:08
你为什么这么确定C2一定是跟澳洲土著有联系?难道只是因为C1和C2都是C而已?那NO和MS还都是K2的下游呢,这你怎么就不说了?
32# MNOPS
都有可能,在最新的B.Papuan test数据出来之前,暂时无法明确什么,可能现代东亚人会有极少量的B.P.血统,这也是正常的,无须大惊小怪。

乌-西语尽管是假说,但起码说明二者很早之前有密切接触,这就够了。
物格而后知至,知至而后意诚,意诚而后心正,心正而后身修,身修而后家齐,家齐而后国治,国治而后天下平...
一个俄国坛友问:何谓ASE? 另一个犹太坛友答曰如下(下面深褐色加黑部分),令人忍俊不禁。有时候,熟读塔尔穆德的犹太人尤其是阿什肯纳齐犹太人还是蛮可爱的,呵呵

  • 10-31-2014, 05:54 PM #84
    Not a CopVeteran Member Join DateJan 2013Last OnlineToday @ 12:21 AMLocationSaint-PetersburgMeta-EthnicitySlavic and GermanicEthnicityRussian, GermanAncestryNorthern Russia, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania.CountryY-DNAR1b1b2a1amtDNAU5b1eTaxonomyDalo-Faelid\Sub-NordidPoliticsCMs over hoesAge20GenderPosts5,020
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    Originally Posted by Jackson
    Actually just realised the results have changed since i last posted, here are my new ones. Less noisy by the looks of it:




    What's ASE?

    Population
    ANE 20.13%
    ASE 2.92%
    WHG-UHG 63.63%
    East_Eurasian 2.89%
    West_African 0.58%
    East_African 0.34%
    ENF 9.51%
  • 10-31-2014, 05:55 PM #85
    Longbowman
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    Originally Posted by Not a Cop
    What's ASE?



    The stuff Aryans are made of.



    Who is rich? He who is happy with what he has - Simeon ben Zoma, Ethics of the Fathers, Talmud, Avot
物格而后知至,知至而后意诚,意诚而后心正,心正而后身修,身修而后家齐,家齐而后国治,国治而后天下平...
现代印度主要是两大成分,即ANI与ASI(当年赖希Reich只因为分析出这两大成分而在古人类的aDNA研究领域扬名立万),前者主要是来自ANE/CGH/WHG,后者主要是来自ASE
imvivi001 发表于 2016-10-23 18:32
这里修正一下,恐怕ANI的形成也会有一定量的ASE的参与~
物格而后知至,知至而后意诚,意诚而后心正,心正而后身修,身修而后家齐,家齐而后国治,国治而后天下平...
哪位大侠能解释一下ASE是什么成分,怎么东亚人普遍有这个成分,有的还不低?我理解的是一种东南亚采集人群的成分,不知道是否正确。
36# shuer
关于ASE还真不容易一下子说得清楚,因为它不像ANE/ WHG/ ENF这些已经有专门的权威性学术论文根据aDNA做的分析,似乎ASE目前还没有权威性的论文问世,总之,它泛指一种来自很早之前源自南亚地区特有的常染成分(ancient south Eurasian)。至于eurogene ANE-K7项目组是如何确定这种成分的,目前也找不到权威性的说法,我猜测是根据Reich的ASI研究成果再结合现代南亚地区的特色常染与其他地区人群成分作对比,也可能内部参照了古哈拉帕文化人群aDNA的数据,不过这仅仅是猜测。
ASE成分在整个欧亚大陆普遍存在,也昭示其起源地在欧亚大陆所处的独特的地理位置,相对而言,因为其位置因素,因此在东亚人群当中要比西欧亚人群多一些(具体看情况,因族群而异)
物格而后知至,知至而后意诚,意诚而后心正,心正而后身修,身修而后家齐,家齐而后国治,国治而后天下平...

imvivi001 发表于 2016-10-22 17:19
根据这篇刚刚出炉的论文,上面的树结构关于basal Papuan部分需要修改一下(似乎正好对应CF分离那一次,时间大约是 51–72 kya
A genomic history of Aboriginal Australia : Nature : Nature Research http://www.nature.com/nature/jou ... ll/nature18299.html


A genomic history of Aboriginal Australia

Anna-Sapfo Malaspinas,
Michael C. Westaway,
Craig Muller,
Vitor C. Sousa,
Oscar Lao, Isabel Alves,
Anders Bergström,
Georgios Athanasiadis,
Jade Y. Cheng,
Jacob E. Crawford,
Tim H. Heupink,
Enrico Macholdt,
Stephan Peischl,
Simon Rasmussen,
Stephan Schiffels,
Sankar Subramanian,
Joanne L. Wright,
Anders Albrechtsen,
Chiara Barbieri, Isabelle Dupanloup,
Anders Eriksson,
Ashot Margaryan,
Ida Moltke,
Irina Pugach,
Thorfinn S. Korneliussen
et al.
AffiliationsContributionsCorresponding authors
Nature 538, 207–214 (13 October 2016) doi:10.1038/nature18299
Received 02 October 2015 Accepted 04 May 2016 Published online 21 September 2016
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Abstract
Abstract• References• Author information• Extended data figures and tables• Supplementary information

The population history of Aboriginal Australians remains largely uncharacterized. Here we generate high-coverage genomes for 83 Aboriginal Australians (speakers of Pama–Nyungan languages) and 25 Papuans from the New Guinea Highlands. We find that Papuan and Aboriginal Australian ancestors diversified 25–40 thousand years ago (kya), suggesting pre-Holocene population structure in the ancient continent of Sahul (Australia, New Guinea and Tasmania). However, all of the studied Aboriginal Australians descend from a single founding population that differentiated ~10–32 kya. We infer a population expansion in northeast Australia during the Holocene epoch (past 10,000 years) associated with limited gene flow from this region to the rest of Australia, consistent with the spread of the Pama–Nyungan languages. We estimate that Aboriginal Australians and Papuans diverged from Eurasians 51–72 kya, following a single out-of-Africa dispersal, and subsequently admixed with archaic populations. Finally, we report evidence of selection in Aboriginal Australians potentially associated with living in the desert.
物格而后知至,知至而后意诚,意诚而后心正,心正而后身修,身修而后家齐,家齐而后国治,国治而后天下平...
本帖最后由 imvivi001 于 2016-10-25 09:42 编辑



清晰度不够高,等一下再认真找一下原图~
物格而后知至,知至而后意诚,意诚而后心正,心正而后身修,身修而后家齐,家齐而后国治,国治而后天下平...
本帖最后由 Lep1dus 于 2016-10-25 11:48 编辑

[attach]49142[/attach]感觉东亚和南亚是不同的,不过这里中亚和南亚里面主要好像都是偏中亚,偏南印度的没有,维吾尔和哈扎拉有东亚成分不奇怪
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