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59# lindberg
帝之下都、昆仑、幽都——南西伯利亚,紫微-金微山,金紫光禄塞!
我甚至以为所有非洲以外的人都是南西伯利亚这个伊甸园诞生的。
http://blog.sina.com.cn/aganmu;安德(嗨,前一个无辜被封):
http://blog.sina.com.cn/kilarler
本帖最后由 大凌河 于 2018-6-5 09:40 编辑

田园洞人的父系单倍群很可能是 C1a,而山顶洞人的父系也同样非常可能是C1a,甚至是C1a1
C1a1和C1a2分开,走北线进入东亚。 田园洞人的父系是C1a的理由是,常染色体和他最接近的古人是欧洲的C1a2,所以我们可以猜测田园洞人是C1a2的东亚亲戚C1a1,至少是一种可能性。
山顶洞人的一个头骨类型接近欧洲的 克罗马农人,而克罗马农人的早期遗骨检测出来有 C1a2,所以山顶洞人也同样可能是C1a1,而山顶洞人的墓葬发现红色赭石颜料,这种墓葬方式在欧洲的 C1a2人群的墓葬中也同样发现过。而现代人群怀疑大概类是 C1a1的日本九州隼人族,也同样发现大量用红色赭石颜料的墓葬。所以山顶洞人的父系,也同样存在C1a1的可能性。当然,红色赭石颜料参与的墓葬形式,在北亚很多民族中都有,也不能说C1a独有。
至少早期几万年前欧亚大陆北线的人群,是C1a的可能性远远大于其它单倍群
62# 大凌河
山顶洞人中有Y-C1a1的可能性确实是非常大的。
说也奇怪,神话传说那盘古开天地距今四万九千年接近5万年(尔来四万八千年+唐代至今年数,我念书虽少,但是也确实感觉文章本天成,言与神同在,所以谪仙人的诗篇,很可能是代天言道),这正是现在东亚主体人群产生时间,真是冥冥中,不知谁给保存的记忆,好像精确的历史,以某种通灵萨满模式一直存在,那些被神启的神奇传说,有些就是传达那超自然的设计?
田园洞人的Y单倍群是什么,还不好确定,不过风虎云龙说王传超最近的论文给出了这么个虚假的数据(同样奇怪的还有法国chaudardes 那个古人的Y-O,不过欧洲旧石器时代既然有Y-K2a,并且我以前看过据说欧洲旧石器晚期有些古人有类似蒙古人种性状的特征——但用百度怎么也搜不到,并不觉得突兀,这些似乎佐证了Y-K2a~Y-NO的西来论,也是我比较适时从语言文化等角度提出来的一个假想):
风虎云龙 发表于 2018-5-18 19:39 | 只看该作者



划重点,田园洞人父系是这个?王教授不觉得异常吗?
6C4649E6-8C46-4DFF-9390-FBA6611349EC.png (10.57 KB)
下载次数:19
2018-5-18 19:39




(自:http://www.ranhaer.org/viewthread.php?tid=38108&page=2#pid546591
http://blog.sina.com.cn/aganmu;安德(嗨,前一个无辜被封):
http://blog.sina.com.cn/kilarler
传达超自然设计?王传超这鬼使神差的错误也是神王用计算机程序贯通三才传达超自然设计?
http://blog.sina.com.cn/aganmu;安德(嗨,前一个无辜被封):
http://blog.sina.com.cn/kilarler
62# 大凌河
确实,以前看过山顶洞人和格拉维特文化的颅骨比较,惊人的相似。

田园洞不知是否有完整头骨?
1966年发掘的北京猿人化石不知道保存情况如何,没被周色目鼓动破四旧的给打砸抢烧了吧?
瑞典那里还保存几颗牙齿,不知道能不能测古DNA,假如测出是Y-A00000,打脸非洲起源说就有意思了!
http://blog.sina.com.cn/aganmu;安德(嗨,前一个无辜被封):
http://blog.sina.com.cn/kilarler
66# 癯鹤
也没准和海德堡人是远房兄弟!
主要感觉我们这里长得像北京猿人的还是有些。尤其是一些智商似乎不及平常的人呢,就更像了些。然而现代智人如何能从直立人突变而来(包括杂交),真是一个更大的谜团!
http://blog.sina.com.cn/aganmu;安德(嗨,前一个无辜被封):
http://blog.sina.com.cn/kilarler
68# 癯鹤
应该是渐变,直立人->早期智人->晚期智人->现代人种,每一步都有很多过渡和混合,现代人的祖先能够脱颖而出,实在是各种因素累积而成的结果。

当然,看过《猿人星球》和《西部世界》,可能会有更多的想法
68# 癯鹤
应该是渐变,直立人->早期智人->晚期智人->现代人种,每一步都有很多过渡和混合,现代人的祖先能够脱颖而出,实在是各种因素累积而成的结果。

当然,看过《猿人星球》和《西部世界》,可能会有更多的 ...
lindberg 发表于 2018-6-5 11:14
“民科”这词儿我越看越顺溜(虽然我不喜欢很多民科的理论):“民主-科学”还是“民间科学”?
democracy science——德赛——民主科学
folk science——佛赛——民间科学
民间科学“晒佛”、“赛神会”,佛日增辉,苦海求福,法轮(螺旋桨,水去为法,螺旋桨开动,水势迅疾离去,带动轮船前行)常转,慈航普渡!呵呵呵!
作科斗法蝌蚪文,科学民主顶个球!民间科学赛神会,挂科打卦没来由!
上古竞于道德赛,中世逐于智谋略!当今竞于佛科赛,智伯直播晋阳诀!
http://blog.sina.com.cn/aganmu;安德(嗨,前一个无辜被封):
http://blog.sina.com.cn/kilarler
65# lindberg

田园洞人没有完整头骨,头部只有下颌骨

其中人类遗
田园洞人遗骨
骸多处于破碎状态,骨块彼此多不连接,有一定的石化,似属一个男性成年个体。发现的人类化石的解剖部位包括:下颌骨(附多枚牙齿)、锁骨肱骨桡骨脊椎骨股骨腓骨跟骨趾骨。此外还有几枚零散的牙齿,似属另外个体。
本帖最后由 lindberg 于 2018-6-5 12:40 编辑

不过,山顶洞好像没有发现欧洲那些陶土的胖女神像

当然,也不是所有格拉维特文化都有胖女神像。
本帖最后由 癯鹤 于 2018-6-5 23:17 编辑

71# 大凌河
想起了智伯,你就给出这样的信息。深深怀疑田园洞人旁边的山顶洞人可能有做头骨碗的习俗(据说北京猿人那时候就有此风了?后来东亚人发明了陶器容具,可能此风才消减)!估计……

PS:还有外星超智能生物有没有还不好说,但是低智能普通生物是否存在,证据越发接近发现了:

What has Nasa found on Mars? Space agency to make a major announcement on Thursday about life on the red planet

  • Nasa will reveal ‘new results from Mars Curiosity rover’ at the press conference
  • The announcement could provide new evidence of life on the red planet
  • Curiosity has started drilling into the Martian surface after an 18-month hiatus
By Aaron Brown For Mailonline
Published: 11:30 BST, 5 June 2018 | Updated: 12:37 BST, 5 June 2018


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Nasa will hold a press conference to reveal its latest findings from Mars this week.
Few details have leaked about the mysterious new announcement, which will be streamed online from 7pm BST (2pm EDT) on Thursday 7 June.
Nasa is staying tight-lipped about what it has discovered on the red planet, but it has confirmed the announcement will feature ‘new science results from Nasa's Mars Curiosity rover’.
Curiosity was sent to Mars in August 2012 to to study its climate and geology as well as investigate whether the planet could sustain life or has liquid water.
It is possible the new 'science results' from the rover could relate to Martian life.
Scroll down for video

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Nasa's Curiosity rover pictured taking a selfie on the Vera Rubin Ridge, which it has been investigating for the past several months. The rover is now 11 miles (18 km) from the original landing site where it touched down in August 2012

Nasa has not announced where the event will be held, but it is likely the agency will host it at its headquarters in Washington, DC.
Given that Curiosity recently started to drill into the Martian surface for the first time in 18 months, it is also possible the announcement relates to something unearthed by the rover.
Curiosity was forced to abandon plans to take samples from the surface of the planet after mechanical issues took its drill offline back in October 2016.

However, Nasa engineers developed a new technique to restore the robotic explorer’s drilling ability, using its robotic arm to push the drill bit forward as it spins, much like a human might operate a drill.
The new drilling technique, dubbed Feed Extended Drilling (FED), keeps the drill bit extended beyond the stabiliser posts, which were previously used to steady the drill against the rocks.
Engineers developed the technique using an exact duplicate of the Curiosity rover on Earth.
It took almost a year to devise the method, which was successfully used on Mars on 20 May.

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Nasa will hold a press conference to reveal ‘new science results from Nasa's Mars Curiosity rover’ on Thursday 7 June at 7pm BST (2pm EDT)



The new drilling technique is known as Feed Extended Drilling (FED), and keeps the drill’s bit extended beyond the stabiliser posts that were previously used to steady the drill against the rocks, NASA explains
Ashwin Vasavada, project scientist at Nasa’s Mars Science Laboratory at JPL — the official title for the Curiosity rover's £1.9 billion ($2.5 billion) mission, is scheduled to take part in the press conference later this week, further fuelling speculation the announcement relates to something uncovered by Curiosity.
Michelle Thaller, assistant director of science for communications in Nasa’s Planetary Science Division, based at its headquarters in Washington DC, will host the event.
Also on the bill is Paul Mahaffy, Solar System Exploration Division Director at Nasa's Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Maryland, and Jen Eigenbrode, a research scientist at Goddard.

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Curiosity rover was forced to abandon plans to take samples from the surface of the planet after mechanical issues took its drill offline back in October 2016 (CGI Render By Nasa)

Chris Webster, a senior research fellow at Nasa's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, California, will also be on the panel on Thursday.
Nasa will live stream the event on its Nasa TV channel, as well as Facebook Live, Twitch TV, Ustream, YouTube and Twitter.
Viewers will be able to put questions to the panel by using the social media hashtag #askNASA.
WHAT IS THE MARS CURIOSITY ROVER AND WHAT HAS IT ACHIEVED SO FAR?The Mars Curiosity rover was initially launched from Cape Canaveral, an American Air Force station in Florida on November 26, 2011.
After embarking on a 350 million mile (560 million km) journey, the £1.8 billion ($2.5 billion) research vehicle touched down only 1.5 miles (2.4 km) away from the earmarked landing spot.
After a successful landing on August 6th, 2012, the rover has travelled about 11 miles (18 km).
It was launched on the Mars Science Laboratory (MSL) spacecraft and the rover constituted 23 per cent of the mass of the total mission.
With 80 kg (180 lb) of scientific instruments on board, the rover weighs a total of 899 kg (1,982 lb) and is powered by a plutonium fuel source.
The rover is 2.9 metres (9.5 ft) long by 2.7 metres (8.9 ft) wide by 2.2 metres (7.2 ft) in height.

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The Mars curiosity rover was initially intended to be a two-year mission to gather information to help answer if the planet could support life, has liquid water, study the climate and the geology of Mars an has since been active for more than 2,000 days

The rover was initially intended to be a two-year mission to gather information to help answer if the planet could support life, has liquid water, study the climate and the geology of Mars.
Due to its success, the mission has been extended indefinitely and has now been active for over 2,000 days.
The rover has several scientific instruments on board, including the mastcam which consists of two cameras and can take high-resolution images and videos in real colour.
So far on the journey of the car-sized robot it has encountered an ancient streambed where liquid water used to flow, not long after it also discovered that billions of years ago, a nearby area known as Yellowknife Bay was part of a lake that could have supported microbial life.

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The Mars Curiosity rover was initially launched from Cape Canaveral, an American Air Force station in Florida, on November 26, 2011.
The rover was initially intended to be a two-year mission to gather information to help answer if the planet could support life or has liquid water, as well as study the climate and the geology of Mars.
However, due to its success, the mission has been extended indefinitely and has now been active for over 2,000 days, sending back thousands of pictures during its lonely mission.
The £1.8 billion ($2.5 billion) rover has since travelled about 11 miles (18 km) on the Martian surface.


NASA reveals stunning new 360 degree panorama of the red planet








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Curiosity will be superseded by a new Nasa rover in 2020, which will collect Martian soil in up to 31 pen-sized canisters which will be sent back to Earth for analysis.
The ambitious plan also involves a rover developed by the European Space Agency (ESA) called ExoMars, which is set to reach the red planet in 2021 and will simultaneously drill deep into the surface to look for evidence of life.
ExoMars will be capable of drilling as far down as 6.5 feet (two meters).
The second step of the joint Nasa-ESA mission will launch a ‘fetch rover,’ which will retrieve the samples from the other rovers.
Then, it would return to its lander and place the samples in a small rocket dubbed a Mars Ascent Vehicle.
WHAT IS THE EXOMARS MISSION?The main goal of ExoMars is to find out if life has ever existed on Mars.
The spacecraft on which the Schiaparelli travelled to Mars, Trace Gas Orbiter (TGO), carries a probe to study trace gases such as methane around the planet.
Scientists believe methane, a chemical that on Earth is strongly tied to life.
The second part of the ExoMars mission, delayed to 2020, will deliver a rover to Mars' surface.
It will be the first with the ability to both move across the planet's surface and drill into the ground to collect and analyse samples.
Schiaparelli was designed to test technologies for the rover's landing in four years - but, it crashed into the red planet in October 2016.


ExoMars: A preview to the up coming expedition to Mars








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This will launch the container holding the samples to Mars orbit, where it will be collected by a spacecraft – which would require its own separate launch from Earth.
After gathering the samples and loading them to an Earth entry vehicle, the craft would return to Earth with the Martian soil.
The opportunity to analyse Martian soil would provide unprecedented access to the red planet’s history and its potential to host life.
‘Previous Mars missions revealed ancient streambeds and the right chemistry that could have supported microbial life on the red planet,’ said Thomas Zurbuchen, NASA’s Associate Administrator for the Science Mission Directorate.
‘A sample would provide a critical leap forward in our understanding of Mars’ potential to harbour life.’
http://blog.sina.com.cn/aganmu;安德(嗨,前一个无辜被封):
http://blog.sina.com.cn/kilarler
Due to the presence of multiple partial modern human skeletons thought to have been interred along with a diversity of evidence of symbolic behavior, Zhoukoudian Upper Cave (ZKD UC; formally “Choukoutien”) from northern China has long been a critical site for understanding Late Quaternary human evolution and particularly the role eastern Asia played. Unfortunately, uncertainty regarding ZKD UC's chronology has long hindered determination of its importance in the debate over modern human origins. This situation has been particularly problematic because dates from the primary archaeological layers of ZKD UC have ranged from the Late Pleistocene to the Early Holocene (~34–10 ka), with clearly different implications depending on which age is used. Here, we present a new set of accelerator mass spectrometry radiocarbon dating results from ZKD UC. Based on this new set of dates and further re-evaluations of the previous dating analyses, archaeological materials, published excavation reports and stratigraphy, we conclude that the ZKD UC archaeological layers minimally date to 35.1–33.5 ka. Given the similarities between the human fossils and archaeology between ZKD UC and western Eurasia, it is likely that the ZKD UC human foragers were part of dispersal events across northern Eurasia toward Siberia and eventually reaching into northern China.
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65# lindberg

看看我今天发的英文内容,山顶洞人,的确有是C1a的可能性
本帖最后由 lindberg 于 2018-6-6 13:03 编辑

75# 大凌河
说实在的,我觉得山顶洞人的种族挺复杂的,尤其还有一例头骨有人工变形习俗。
山顶洞人3个头骨分别属于老年男性、青年女性和中年女性。老年男人头顶低矮,额骨较扁塌,眉弓粗壮,有铲形门齿,被认为属于近似西欧新人化石的原始黄种人,青年女性头骨曾因长期缠头而致变形,头顶很高,眼眶较低,鼻梨状孔颇宽,嘴部突出,被认为属于美拉尼西亚类型。中年女人的头顶正中高耸,两边较平,鼻梨状孔较狭,眼眶较高,被认为属于爱斯基摩类型。后经深入研究,发现它们有许多共同特征如头骨硕大,上面部低矮,整个面部中等程度的突出,眼眶较低,梨状孔较阔,其下缘呈鼻前窝型等,大多是与中国其他新人化石一致的,而且接近现代黄种人。


这个青年女性嘴部突出,而且有头骨变形习俗。

这段话里的“曾”字,应该都是德国犹太人魏敦瑞的观点。
76# lindberg

还是以检测为准,其他都只是猜测,有太多的变数和可能性。
我的思路是这样的,我认为山顶洞人是走北线进入亚洲的智人,今天你回帖那个英文资料里也说,山顶洞人也是由西向东,北部扩散的人群。
好了,我认为O,N这些中国人主要类型的人群,都是从南向北扩散的,3万,4万多年前还在印度,或者东南亚呆着。
日本那种D也是走南线进入日本。3万,4万多年前北京附近,包括西伯利亚应该是走北线进入的C1a,C2,Q人群,考虑到Q比较年轻,大概是晚一些进入东亚,那么
3万,4万多年前北京附近的古人类,是C人群的可能性就大了。C1a,C2,C*都有可能,当然了,也可有可能是K.
结论就是那种可能性都有,但是我认为是C的可能性更大一些。
77# 大凌河
先等等俄罗斯南西伯利亚最近送检那批化石材料的结果吧。国内的,就是等到黄花菜都凉了,也不见得有结果。味道,舌尖,贵在尝鲜,看客下菜,还没结果,歇歇菜先!
http://blog.sina.com.cn/aganmu;安德(嗨,前一个无辜被封):
http://blog.sina.com.cn/kilarler
78# 癯鹤

那个5万多年的,估计不是现代智人的可能性很大,我觉得,3,4万年才可能是现代智人
本帖最后由 lindberg 于 2018-6-6 15:59 编辑

我倒是觉得,到东亚无论南线北线,人群迁徙都是多波次的,同一个路线会有多波次人群移动;

还有在不同时期,随着冰线的南移北迁,路线也会在不同纬度间变换;

当然主要路线就是北边的猛犸草原和南亚的丛林,很可能有一条(或几条)中间路线处于前面二者之间,这几条路线的初始节点可能在中亚或者南亚北部或者伊朗高原东部;

蒙古人种体质这么特殊,我觉得就是从北到南扩散的,至于原始蒙古人种形成,很可能在北亚偏东方向;

C系我倒是觉得南北路线都有(C*或者C1*南北都有,C2是否从北很不确定);

至于N、O,我觉得可能处于中间路线;

D系我也觉得有南方路线,有中间路线(时间在N、O之前);

至于P系,很可能和C系是相似的(时间在C系之后,这里的C是xC2)。
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